[garyahouse]

Amazing how many threads address the issue of gas mileage on this forum, but I can't find one that specifically addresses WHERE we buy our gas. In other words, according to the owner's manual, we might be putting the wrong gas in our cars. Our first question is usually, "Should I use regular or premium?" We've argued over this more than once on these pages. But a more important question is, "WHERE should I be buying my gas?" The WHERE is important because many owners know nothing about top tier fuels.

Bear with me, those of you who already know about this, but I believe a specific thread out to be started on this subject. I'd like to make this simple. Rather than explain what top tier fuel is, if you don't know, just do a quick google search on "top tier fuels." The net is awash with plenty of good information about this. That said, my owner's manual that came with my 2023 Tucson says nothing about this. But from what I understand, the copy issued to each new owner is an ABRIDGED copy (says so right on the cover), and is shorter and more abbreviated than the online version. I was reading through this online version recently. You can find it here: CLICKY. On page 9-9, at the bottom of the page, look at footnote *3, and you'll find these words: "If top tier detergent gasoline is not available, one bottle of additive is recommended..." Reading a little further reveals that they are referring to utilizing fuel additives (like Techron) every 8,000 miles.

I'm not making this up. I provided the link so you can see for yourself. Hyundai didn't come right out and demand that we use top tier fuels ONLY, but do the math, folks, that's what they're saying. So what if we don't? What does a manufacture ALWAYS do when we don't follow the recommendations found in the owner's manual? They refuse to fix a claim that should be covered by the factory warranty.

Beyond that, it is well documented that top tier fuels make a big difference inside your engine. Better mileage and smoother running today? Not likely. But use if for a year and compare with the other guy who didn't. Top tier fuels are worth every extra penny they cost. Over the past 10 years, I've read dozens and dozens of reports and watched countless you tube videos on this subject. It's worth learning about because it really MATTERS.

 

[Tampa8]

TT gas has additives most if not all cheaper selling gas does not. Well said, about it not magically giving more mpg, though in an engine with many more miles always using TT might.
Techron is actually used in the actual gas from Chevron it's one of their additives and I think still considered the best at cleaning. I use top tier at all times (with a very rare time or two it just was not available on a trip) And I still use a bottle of Techron every 8,000 or so miles. It is the only kind of additive I use gas or oil.

Some of the myth about using Premium making the car run better comes from a couple of true things. Before all electronic monitoring of the engine, exhaust, almost everything, it might in some engines make it run better.
Second, at one time the better additives were in the highest premium gas to make you buy it. That is no longer true.

AAA: Not All Gasoline Created Equal | AAA Newsroom

Save Money and Stop Buying Premium Gasoline | Edmunds

 

[garyahouse]

TT gas has additives most if not all cheaper selling gas does not. Well said, about it not magically giving more mpg, though in an engine with many more miles always using TT might.
Techron is actually used in the actual gas from Chevron it's one of their additives and I think still considered the best at cleaning. I use top tier at all times (with a very rare time or two it just was not available on a trip) And I still use a bottle of Techron every 8,000 or so miles. It is the only kind of additive I use gas or oil.

Some of the myth about using Premium making the car run better comes from a couple of true things. Before all electronic monitoring of the engine, exhaust, almost everything, it might in some engines make it run better.
Second, at one time the better additives were in the highest premium gas to make you buy it. That is no longer true.

AAA: Not All Gasoline Created Equal | AAA Newsroom

Save Money and Stop Buying Premium Gasoline | Edmunds

I was reading a post written by a fella who delivers gas to gas stations for a living. He talked about where he got the gas and what additives were mandated by the government that he put in at the cheapest gas stations. He mentioned a couple, but Speed Way sticks in my mind. He talked about putting specific formulas in Shell, Mobil, Marathon, etc., and specific amounts: sometimes 2 1/2 times what he put in the cheap stations. He said they were very specific about what he put in and how much and that his work was monitored carefully, especially at the top tier stations. His post was written 12 years ago, so some of what he said may not be relevant now, but Shell for example, at that time, put the same exact additive package in the same amounts in all grades of their gasoline. At other stations, and I forget which, he was instructed to put more into their premium blends. But then the "data" was old, so I didn't copy it down. Suffice to say that not all fuels are created equal. He also mentioned that although Speed Way was owned by Marathon (at that time: I'm not sure now), he was required to put the appropriate amount of top tier additives in the Marathon, but much less (minimum government requirement) in the SpeedWay fuels. He also mentioned that cheaper stations shopped the market daily for the cheapest suppliers and the cheapest additives.

 

[PowerJrod]

Costco gas for my truck always! I think the Mrs only uses Smiths gas in her 2023 Tucson...not sure if it's from a TT supplier though.

 

[garyahouse]

Costco gas for my truck always! I think the Mrs only uses Smiths gas in her 2023 Tucson...not sure if it's from a TT supplier though.

Quick way to find out: Go to this link: CLICKY. When the web page pops up, click on the green button that says, "gasoline brands." It takes you to the list of companies that are registered as top tier fuels. At the top of that page, there's a little window that says, "country." Click on it, and choose "USA," or whatever country you live in. It shortens the list to include only stations in the country where you live.

 

[Tampa8]

At one time Costco (Kirkland) was top tier depending on location/State. They should now only be Top Tier. Sam's club last I looked was not top tier, they do have additives but not to Top Tier standards.

The Irving gas/convenience store chain also was hit and miss depending on where they go their gas but is now top tier.
Unless it has changed, Cumberland Farms does not have Top Tier. There was always confusion they use, or used, Gulf Oil gas. It is top tier in Puerto Rico but not here.

 

[PowerJrod]

Quick way to find out: Go to this link: CLICKY. When the web page pops up, click on the green button that says, "gasoline brands." It takes you to the list of companies that are registered as top tier fuels. At the top of that page, there's a little window that says, "country." Click on it, and choose "USA," or whatever country you live in. It shortens the list to include only stations in the country where you live.

Smith's won't be registered there even if they have TT gas because they get the gas from various suppliers. Sometimes they get their gas from Shell...sometimes BP. It just varies.

 

[garyahouse]

Smith's won't be registered there even if they have TT gas because they get the gas from various suppliers. Sometimes they get their gas from Shell...sometimes BP. It just varies.

Jrod,
"Where" the fuel came from or the truck that delivers it doesn't matter. What I'm saying is that gas doesn't come from Shell or BP. Actually, it GOES TO THEM, that is to their individual stations. The fuels come from the same source. It's the additive package that the driver puts into the tank AS he delivers his fuel that counts. At the pump it becomes Shell or BP or in your case, Smith's. Those additives are not cheap and they are closely monitored to be as cheap as possible in the low cost stations, and conversely monitored to be just the right combination of company approved additives in just the right top-tier sanctioned amounts... in the stations that are indeed top tier. For example, Chevron gas doesn't become different than any other gas UNTIL they put Techron in it as it's delivered.

 

[Danco]

If I'm not mistaken the source of the fuel or the truck that delivers it doesn't much matter much. The fuels come from the same source. It's the additive package that the driver puts into the tank AS he delivers his fuel that counts. Those additives are not cheap and they are closely monitored to be as cheap as possible in the low cost stations, and conversely monitored to be just the right combination of company approved additives in just the right top-tier sanctioned amounts... in the stations that are indeed top tier. For example, Chevron gas doesn't become different than any other gas UNTIL they put Techron in it as it's delivered.

I can only speak for my area, but in Reno, Nevada, ALL of our gasoline comes via the same pipeline from the Chevron refinery in Richmond, California. It all goes to the same tank farm, from which it then gets delivered to gas stations. The ONLY difference is the additives...

 

[garyahouse]

I just edited post #8 above. Maybe it makes more sense. It's sort of like those soda machines at, let's say, McDonald's. Every different soda that comes out of the machine is made with the same water. It doesn't become Coke or Sprite until the additives are put in at the nozzle. The same thing happens with the gas we buy. It all comes from the same refinery, there aren't that many of them folks. It doesn't become our specific flavor (Shell, Mobil, or Speed Way) until the driver of the truck puts in the additive package based on the formula mandated by the station he's delivering to.

Here's the funny part: everybody has their favorite soda. Even at McDonald's, I love some and hate others. I know the difference because I can taste it. But when it comes to gasoline, why would anybody want to argue that it doesn't matter where you get your gas cuz they all come from the same source? Would we say that about that soda machine? Of course not. Problem is, we can't easily see the difference in gasolines, and tend to believe one brand makes our car run better than another. We'd all agree one often costs less. But unlike soda, we can't taste the difference, and too many people don't care. We have our favorites, but for all the wrong reasons.

Think I'm wrong about that? AAA did some research on this subject. They said that 63% of US drivers believe there is a difference in the quality of gas sold at different stations. But only 12% choose a gas station based on actual quality (they only buy top tier fuels). Did ya get that? It's not just my opinion.

 

[garyahouse]

Here's the funny part: everybody has their favorite soda. Even at McDonald's, I love some and hate others. I know the difference because I can taste it. But when it comes to gasoline, why would anybody want to argue that it doesn't matter where you get your gas cuz they all come from the same source? Would we say that about that soda machine? Of course not. Problem is, we can't easily see the difference in gasolines, and tend to believe one brand makes our car run better than another. We'd all agree one often costs less. But unlike soda, we can't taste the difference, and too many people don't care. We have our favorites, but for all the wrong reasons.

Think I'm wrong about that? AAA did some research on this subject. They said that "63% of US drivers believe there is a difference in the quality of gas sold at different stations. But only 12% choose a gas station based on actual quality" (they only buy top tier fuels). Did ya get that? It's not just my opinion.

 

[RevLauren]

Jrod,
"Where" the fuel came from or the truck that delivers it doesn't matter. What I'm saying is that gas doesn't come from Shell or BP. Actually, it GOES TO THEM, that is to their individual stations. The fuels come from the same source. It's the additive package that the driver puts into the tank AS he delivers his fuel that counts. At the pump it becomes Shell or BP or in your case, Smith's. Those additives are not cheap and they are closely monitored to be as cheap as possible in the low cost stations, and conversely monitored to be just the right combination of company approved additives in just the right top-tier sanctioned amounts... in the stations that are indeed top tier. For example, Chevron gas doesn't become different than any other gas UNTIL they put Techron in it as it's delivered.
[/QUOTE
Thank you for bringing all this to our attention and providing some education and resources to study on the topic. I, for one, was not clear about additives, but I have always preferred the "brand names" such as Chevron, Shell, Exxon (I've been alive long enough to remember Esso, too, and fuel at 50 cents a gallon) . One thing I am wondering is how this relates to octane rating at the pump. Gas prices make me wince here in California, but I'm not going to spend $40k on a new car and skimp on fuel quality; that would be foolish. But is it overkill to pay for 91 octane?

 

[RevLauren]

Thank you for bringing all this to our attention and providing some education and resources to study on the topic. I, for one, was not clear about additives, but I have always preferred the "brand names" such as Chevron, Shell, Exxon (I've been alive long enough to remember Esso, too, and fuel at 50 cents a gallon) . One thing I am wondering is how this relates to octane rating at the pump. Gas prices make me wince here in California, but I'm not going to spend $40k on a new car and skimp on fuel quality; that would be foolish. But is it overkill to pay for 91 octane?

 

[Tampa8]

100% throwing money into the fire.

 

[RevLauren]

100% throwing money into the fire.

I imagine that may be true, but I'd be interested to know more about the "why" it's a waste of money. Anyone have thoughts on that? From a reddit thread a quote from an earlier Hyundai manual: "Your new vehicle is designed to use only unleaded fuel having an octane number ((R+M)/2) of 91 (Research Octane Number 95) or higher. "
However, some other versions, specifically Canadian, this statement is altered to 87 or higher. Does make life a little confusing.

https://www.reddit.com/r/HyundaiTucson/comments/t91jgx .

 

[Tampa8]

I imagine that may be true, but I'd be interested to know more about the "why" it's a waste of money. Anyone have thoughts on that?

G O O G L E will yield reasons and look for newer articles that pertain to newer engines. (not the 70's, 80's etc) I could be wrong you sound like you believe it must be better...
Todays cars are electronically controlled and adjust as needed, and are specifically made to run on regular. (unless stated differently)

Don’t Waste Money on Premium Gas if Your Car Is Made for Regular - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

U.S. Drivers Waste $2.1 Billion Annually on Premium Gasoline | AAA Newsroom

 

[garyahouse]

I imagine that may be true, but I'd be interested to know more about the "why" it's a waste of money. Anyone have thoughts on that?

This is a good question. One thing we don't know is what engine you have; as our Tucsons come with more than one. I have the 2.5 entry level gas engine, which takes 87 octane. There is more than one thing at play here, since the additive package, and thus the value of choosing a top tier supplier, is not the same as the octane, which is a measure of how much octane that EVERY station puts into their fuels, be they regular (87), mid grade(91), or premium (93).

Additives, or detergents... are valuable in preventing deposits inside the engine down the road: It takes time for these depsosits to accumulate. Octane, on the other hand has a much more immediate effect. It changes the way your engine runs NOW. Once upon a time, most manufacturers put MORE detergents in premium than they did in regular. Not so any more. Shell, for one, puts the same in all grades of gas: and they are indeed a top tier fuel.

Octane, or "slow 'em down juice" (as I like to call it), is a product that slows down the burn, ei the explosiveness, of your gas. It is NOT a detergent at all. Higher compression engines require it so they don't detonate. Detonation occurs when your fuel begins to self-ignite BEFORE it's supposed to. I'm trying to keep it simple here. This is bad, bad, bad: and can destroy an engine. However, using premium (or mid grade) in an engine designed for regular is a waste of money. It does little or nothing to help, and actually can result in lower gas mileage, though likely by such a small amount that it's hard to measure.

That said, our engines are equipped with state-of-the-art detonation detection devices that both detect and prevent detonation in hundredths of a second. It happens so fast that you'll never know there was detonation beginning to happen, or that it's been averted by retarding the timing or changing the fuel/air mixture. Point is, you won't feel it. Modern engines don't have detonation problems because they're programmed to look for it and prevent it. Yay for us.

Bottom line: using something more expensive than regular is not necessary or recommended in my engine. However, using top tier fuels with their better additive package, IS. Big question is, what does Hyundai recommend for YOUR engine? Seems like there is some confusion in the manual. I know that my abridged manual (that comes with every car) is not the same as the complete manual available online, but not sure what it says about recommended fuel for every engine. Maybe try calling the dealership?

 

[RevLauren]

G O O G L E will yield reasons and look for newer articles that pertain to newer engines. (not the 70's, 80's etc) I could be wrong you sound like you believe it must be better...
Todays cars are electronically controlled and adjust as needed, and are specifically made to run on regular. (unless stated differently)

Don’t Waste Money on Premium Gas if Your Car Is Made for Regular - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

U.S. Drivers Waste $2.1 Billion Annually on Premium Gasoline | AAA Newsroom

Yes, indeed, there are lots of answers out there in cyberspace, but, as is often the case, they frequently do not agree. I have no certainty about what octane is "better" for a particular vehicle, since I have no expertise. The passage cited above is from a 2022 manual, not from earlier decades. But I'll continue to research for more data.

 

[garyahouse]

Let us know what cha find. And maybe call the dealership and get their take on it? It would be nice if they could quote for you WHERE they got their info as well?

 

[Tampa8]

I imagine that may be true, but I'd be interested to know more about the "why" it's a waste of money. Anyone have thoughts on that? From a reddit thread a quote from an earlier Hyundai manual: "Your new vehicle is designed to use only unleaded fuel having an octane number ((R+M)/2) of 91 (Research Octane Number 95) or higher. "
However, some other versions, specifically Canadian, this statement is altered to 87 or higher. Does make life a little confusing.

https://www.reddit.com/r/HyundaiTucson/comments/t91jgx .

I realize you probably have not looked around and read threads. This has been discussed and that passage in the manual was a mistake in the manual. There there was a recall to have dealers fix it with a sticker that said the correct 87 Octane.

You have to be careful reading one post in Reddit and then not doing some research, which could be done here there is a thread about it.
Premium 91 octane fuel only?! | Hyundai Tucson Forum (tucson-forum.com)

Further, the "or higher" is standard wording and I don't see confusing. Otherwise they would be saying you can only use 87 octane and nothing else, which would wrong and ridiculous.
You shouldn't use less than 87 octane but if not available for that fill up using higher won't hurt. But it won't be any better either. Thus 87 or higher.

In addition some Countries don't have 87 octane always available or not available everywhere.