HEV or PHEV

2707 Views 21 Replies 8 Participants Last post by 9975michel, Mar 16, 2022

NewtoTucson

Discussion Starter · Mar 14, 2022

Hello,
Asides from availability, what do you recommend to pre-order, HEV or PHEV?

I live in colder part of Canada (Edmonton).
TIA

1 - 20 of 22 Posts

rbreeze

· #2 · Mar 14, 2022

NewtoTucson said:
Hello,
Asides from availability, what do you recommend to pre-order, HEV or PHEV?

I live in colder part of Canada (Edmonton).
TIA

^ @NewtoTucson, if you have your heart set on a new Tucson, and you wish to pre-order, then I would recommend the PHEV.
Note: As you live in the colder part of Canada, you will be no doubt be disappointed with the cabin heater performance of the Tucson HEV or PHEV in winter, not to mention the resultant fuel economy. If wintertime cabin heat performance together with fuel economy are important to you, I would recommend you consider the Toyota RAV4 HEV/PHEV or the Ford Escape HEV/PHEV. These vehicles provide near instant cabin heat and the impact on fuel economy is kinder as compared to the Tucson HEV/PHEV.

- Richard

NewtoTucson

Discussion Starter · #3 · Mar 14, 2022

rbreeze said:
^ @NewtoTucson, if you have your heart set on a new Tucson, and you wish to pre-order, then I would recommend the PHEV.
Note: As you live in the colder part of Canada, you will be no doubt be disappointed with the cabin heater performance of the Tucson HEV or PHEV in winter, not to mention the resultant fuel economy. If wintertime cabin heat performance together with fuel economy are important to you, I would recommend you consider the Toyota RAV4 HEV/PHEV or the Ford Escape HEV/PHEV. These vehicles provide near instant cabin heat and the impact on fuel economy is kinder as compared to the Tucson HEV/PHEV.

- Richard

Thanks,

Is it that:
1) the Cabin heating is not effective?
OR
2) that for it to be effective, it impacts fuel economy?

Thanks

rbreeze

· #4 · Mar 14, 2022 (Edited)

NewtoTucson said:
Thanks,

Is it that:
1) the Cabin heating is not effective?
OR
2) that for it to be effective, it impacts fuel economy?

Thanks

^ The HVAC (Heat, Ventilation & Air Conditioning) system in the Tucson HEV/PHEV only blows heat when the engine is running. Therefore, activating the heater function in the Tucson's HVAC system will cause the engine to start immediately and may remain running continuously depending on your temperature setting. On "warmer" winter days (eg. when the outside temperature is around 0 deg. C.) and the vehicle switches to EV mode, the HVAC system will begin blowing cool or cold air. The only way to maintain warm air blowing is to turn the temperature setting way up to Maximum heat, which will keep the engine running... and this will additionally impact your fuel economy.
Overall I like my Tucson HEV, but I don't like how Hyundai have configured/engineered the vehicle's HVAC system. In summer it's great - but in winter it's a lousy system for the reasons I've mentioned. Toyota and Ford have a much better (more expensive) design to provide cabin heat, which includes virtually instant cabin heat - even when the vehicle (and engine) are cold.
If you have particular concerns with cabin heat and fuel economy during winter, you might want to consider alternative vehicles.
If I knew all this back in June 2021 I probably wouldn't have purchased my Tucson HEV.

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Reactions: 1

Turbofan

· #5 · Mar 14, 2022 (Edited)

I agree, the cold weather causes the engine to run for a long time and the engine does cool off quickly when in EV mode as indicated by my OBD2 gauge. You also need to consider the lack of provincial rebates in Alberta and Ontario and factor whether you would benefit from the PHEV over the years you would own it by the difference in cost. If you do a lot of highway driving, the HEV would use somewhat less gas.

SummyWell

· #6 · Mar 14, 2022

Turbofan said:
I agree, the cold weather causes the engine to run for a long time and the engine does cool off quickly when in EV mode as indicated by my OBD2 gauge. You also need to consider the lack of provincial rebates in Alberta and Ontario and factor weather you would benefit from the PHEV over the years you would own it by the difference in cost. If you do a lot of highway driving, the HEV would use somewhat less gas.

OMG ... HEV or PHEV is not a right or wrong answer, it depends on so many factors : your habits, daily commute, possibility to charge at home, local incentives, garage parked etc.

Turbofan is right, a Tucson PHEV needs the ICE to generate decent cabin heat.
He is also right about the fact that running on a depleted battery, the PHEV is less efficient then the HEV, because you haul useless battery weight.

Here are some real life examples of my winter driving that may help you do the math (absolutely not scientific figures)
(I'm in QC, I park in a garage, I have snow tires and a roof rack with a ski box ) :

🔋 Battery State of Charge (SOC) at departure	📏 Distance and usage	⛽ Fuel AVG
100% full battery	30+30 km Daily, no heat, just the fan (80% Highway).	Close to 0
100% full battery	30+30 km Daily, normal heat (80% Highway)	1.5 ... 2L / 100Km
100% full battery	100 km to go to the Ski hill (normal heat, mostly highway)	6.6L / 100Km
15% or less (empty battery)	100 km to come back from the Ski hill (normal heat, mostly highway)	8.6 L / 100Km

Remember that during the 3 other seasons, were cabin heat is less an issue, the AC runs off the battery. Running in full EV mode is so nice, no engine noise and even with the small motor, you get the advantage of the peppy EV motor torque.

The PHEV in Sport mode (ICE + EV Motor) is quite zippy

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Reactions: 3

him7403

· #7 · Mar 14, 2022

SummyWell said:
OMG ... HEV or PHEV is not a right or wrong answer, it depends on so many factors : your habits, daily commute, possibility to charge at home, local incentives, garage parked etc.

Turbofan is right, a Tucson PHEV needs the ICE to generate decent cabin heat.
He is also right about the fact that running on a depleted battery, the PHEV is less efficient then the HEV, because you haul useless battery weight.

Here are some real life examples of my winter driving that may help you do the math (absolutely not scientific figures)
(I'm in QC, I park in a garage, I have snow tires and a roof rack with a ski box ) :

🔋 Battery State of Charge (SOC) at departure 📏 Distance and usage ⛽ Fuel AVG
100% full battery 30+30 km Daily, no heat, just the fan (80% Highway). Close to 0
100% full battery 30+30 km Daily, normal heat (80% Highway) 1.5 ... 2L / 100Km
100% full battery 100 km to go to the Ski hill (normal heat, mostly highway) 6.6L / 100Km
15% or less (empty battery) 100 km to come back from the Ski hill (normal heat, mostly highway) 8.6 L / 100Km

Remember that during the 3 other seasons, were cabin heat is less an issue, the AC runs off the battery. Running in full EV mode is so nice, no engine noise and even with the small motor, you get the advantage of the peppy EV motor torque.

The PHEV in Sport mode (ICE + EV Motor) is quite zippy

So the rating is nowhere near the EPA rating. 6.6l/100km is the rating for HEV where you are getting it for PHEV and 8.6L/100km for HEV.

Reactions: 1

him7403

· #8 · Mar 14, 2022

NewtoTucson said:
Hello,
Asides from availability, what do you recommend to pre-order, HEV or PHEV?

I live in colder part of Canada (Edmonton).
TIA

If you have a charger at home then PHEV.

NewtoTucson

Discussion Starter · #9 · Mar 14, 2022

Thanks for the replies. Also concerned with the Transmission issues I have been reading on this forum. Some issues with Transmission, some issues with engine pinging...How has the car been for you guys pls?

Bubka

· #10 · Mar 14, 2022

NewtoTucson said:
Hello,
Asides from availability, what do you recommend to pre-order, HEV or PHEV?

I live in colder part of Canada (Edmonton).
TIA

If your daily needs up to 50 km range PHEV or if you drive much more than no point to PHEV

him7403

· #11 · Mar 14, 2022

Bubka said:
If your daily needs up to 50 km range PHEV or if you drive much more than no point to PHEV

If you drive much more you can still drive 50km on EV

Bubka

· #12 · Mar 14, 2022 (Edited)

him7403 said:
If you drive much more you can still drive 50km on EV

You are right but you will not have that much on fuel saving or even not at all on 100+ daily driven km and you will pay more money when you buy a car.
I ordered PHEV but on my daily needs about 50 km, but if have to drive 100km or more each day I probably will go with HEV!

him7403

· #13 · Mar 14, 2022

Bubka said:
You are right but you will not have that much on fuel saving or even not at all on 100+ daily driven km and you will pay more money when you buy a car.
I ordered PHEV but on my daily needs about 50 km, but if have to drive 100km or more each day I probably will go with HEV!

If you drive 100km a day you can still save on gas half. With the increasing gas price, it's still significant. And with the rebates, phev doesn't cost much than hev in canada.

SummyWell

· #14 · Mar 14, 2022 (Edited)

him7403 said:
So the rating is nowhere near the EPA rating. 6.6l/100km is the rating for HEV where you are getting it for PHEV and 8.6L/100km for HEV.

Is the EPA crew testing the fuel while they go out to Ski in the mountains

?

Seriously, no, my MPG is probably not near because I doubt EPA is test driving with my driving conditions :
a) knobby winter tires
b) trunk 100% loaded with gear
c) driving up hills in the mountains
d) 4 persons in car
e) on a snowy road and ...
f) a ski cargo box on the roof

Theses are my real life figures to help understand scenarios while using my PHEV.
Wait t'll summer comes and I pull by fishing boat 😨.

Hope it helps

.

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Bubka

· #15 · Mar 14, 2022

SummyWell said:
Is the EPA crew testing the fuel while they go out to Ski in the mountains ?

Seriously, I doubt EPA is test driving with my driving conditions :
a) knobby winter tires
b) trunk 100% loaded with gear
c) driving up hills in the mountains
d) 4 persons in car
e) on a snowy road and ...
f) a ski cargo box on the roof

Theses are my real life figures to help understand scenarios while using my PHEV .
Hope it helps.

I would add on yours:
g) driving back home as regular hybrid with 4 people and extra 200 lb on bigger bateries 8.6 l/100 km is nothing extreme on winter tires and cold weather !

Enjoy your PHEV , I like your real number table !!!

Reactions: 1

NewtoTucson

Discussion Starter · #16 · Mar 14, 2022

Do you experienced friends think I should be pausing on doing a pre-order after I read about some Transmission/engine issues reported on this forum?

I'm close to pre-ordering a 2023, but concerned after seeing the complaints.

him7403

· #17 · Mar 14, 2022

NewtoTucson said:
Do you experienced friends think I should be pausing on doing a pre-order after I read about some Transmission/engine issues reported on this forum?

I'm close to pre-ordering a 2023, but concerned after seeing the complaints.

The 500$ deposit is refundable. You can back out anytime you want before the delivery.
You have one year to decide

The sooner you order, the sooner you will get the car (it will still probably take a year though).
I have ordered 2 PHEVs, I'll cancel one when I get it.

Reactions: 1

SummyWell

· #18 · Mar 14, 2022

NewtoTucson said:
Do you experienced friends think I should be pausing on doing a pre-order after I read about some Transmission/engine issues reported on this forum?

I'm close to pre-ordering a 2023, but concerned after seeing the complaints.

Remember that forums are mostly use to share experiences (unfortunately, humans like to share mostly the bad ones) and that if you start searching any forums, for any brand, most likely, you'll fall down the rabbit hole and see complaints about tons of stuff.

Problem today is we have so many choices, we always have the feeling we have made the wrong one 😭.

I think him7403 is kind of right, if you can afford it, placing a refundable deposit will secure your order and will give you plenty of time to make up your mind.

Reactions: 1

NewtoTucson

Discussion Starter · #19 · Mar 15, 2022

Good points and suggestions, thanks 👍

Tucson_John

· #20 · Mar 15, 2022

NewtoTucson said:
Do you experienced friends think I should be pausing on doing a pre-order after I read about some Transmission/engine issues reported on this forum?

I'm close to pre-ordering a 2023, but concerned after seeing the complaints.

I can only speak of my personal experiences. I have not had any engine ping issue, nor have I had any transmission issues.
I have about 7000 miles on the vehicle. The milage is worse (significantly) in the winter, but already I'm back up around 36 mpg. With the price of gas rising I'm glad it is warming up here.

I know the forums bring issues to light, and that is grood for us to read about the problems that have occurred, but I think there are many more happy and satisfied owners than there are owners with problems.

I tend to be more vocal when I am having problems in hopes of hearing solutions. So I'd like to encourage you, my personal experience has been as good or better with my HEV than with any other car that I have purchased. Let us know how you go!

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