[kempscamp1]

For those PHEV owners who rarely fill up because most of their driving is within PHEV range: Since you rarely burn gas, it seems like there could be a danger of letting the gasoline in your tank deteriorate (old gasoline)...it can happen in a few months. Is that a concern? Do you use an additive to combat this?

As wife and I are retired we leave the desert in the summer time. Last summer we were gone from mide June until first week in October. We travel with our 5th wheel . Santa Fe is parked in our garage without being driven. Trickle charger is connected to the 12 v battery.
No problem what so ever with the gas in the tank. Our son has used it a couple of times this summer. Put in one tank of gas. I don't expect any problems when we get back home in a couple of weeks.

 

[Captain Blight]

Yes, but................

Yes, I always plug in, and since most of my driving is around town it is mostly in EV mode.

But, I just got a Kill-A-Watt and, having just returned from a road trip with the battery down to HEV level I measured what it took to return to 100% charge. This would give me 30-33 miles of range.

In contrast to some earlier threads on this forum, I used the fully loaded cost of electricity net of taxes, surcharges, fees, etc. This was 13.9 cents per kilowatt hour (vs. the nominal rate of 11.8 cents per kilowatt hour).

It cost me $2.18 to "fill up" the battery for around as much range as a gallon of gas. Currently gas is around $3/gallon in North Carolina.

I never expected to recoup the additional cost of the PHEV. I plug in as a small effort of environmental stewardship and because I'm a geek that likes new toys.

[Edit: I use a modified extension cord to bring the EVSE to my car which is parked outside. The Kill-A-Watt showed a pretty substantial voltage drop. Other folks might use fewer kilowatt hours to "fill up" their PHEV battery.]

 

[EVDan]

For those PHEV owners who rarely fill up because most of their driving is within PHEV range: Since you rarely burn gas, it seems like there could be a danger of letting the gasoline in your tank deteriorate (old gasoline)...it can happen in a few months. Is that a concern? Do you use an additive to combat this?

There seem to be different opinions on how long gas in the tank is good. I have read from a month to a year. Apparently the length of time it is good is variable based on type of fuel, temperature... There seems to be a consensus that topping of the tank periodically (every 1-2 months) is better than driving around with the tank half empty of several months.
I had a Niro PHEV for 3 yrs & 15K miles, sometimes went 3 months between adding fuel with no problems.
IMO / speculation is that as long as the tank gets filled 3-4x per year, one is unlikely to have issues related to "old gas".

 

[20-yr Owner]

There seem to be different opinions on how long gas in the tank is good. I have read from a month to a year. Apparently the length of time it is good is variable based on type of fuel, temperature... There seems to be a consensus that topping of the tank periodically (every 1-2 months) is better than driving around with the tank half empty of several months.
I had a Niro PHEV for 3 yrs & 15K miles, sometimes went 3 months between adding fuel with no problems.
IMO / speculation is that as long as the tank gets filled 3-4x per year, one is unlikely to have issues related to "old gas".

I suspect that's about right. I only brought the possibility up because it happened to me with a bass boat I owned, and it occurred to me that some PHEVs could be susceptible under similar conditions.

 

[Tampa8]

There seem to be different opinions on how long gas in the tank is good. I have read from a month to a year. Apparently the length of time it is good is variable based on type of fuel, temperature... There seems to be a consensus that topping of the tank periodically (every 1-2 months) is better than driving around with the tank half empty of several months.
I had a Niro PHEV for 3 yrs & 15K miles, sometimes went 3 months between adding fuel with no problems.
IMO / speculation is that as long as the tank gets filled 3-4x per year, one is unlikely to have issues related to "old gas".

Basically, all yes. Non Ethanol can last to about 6 months, as you point out depending on temperature, how stored etc etc. Ethanol blended more like 2 months. Why? Ethanol blended takes moisture from the air and absorbs it. Obviously with stabilizer quite some time longer.

It is entirely possible if the gas is in the tank too long it will give less mpg before it actually starts affecting the engine running.

 

[TraePalmer]

For those PHEV owners who rarely fill up because most of their driving is within PHEV range: Since you rarely burn gas, it seems like there could be a danger of letting the gasoline in your tank deteriorate (old gasoline)...it can happen in a few months. Is that a concern? Do you use an additive to combat this?

Fuel stagnation is possible, but the pressurized fuel tank helps to combat this. Also, the ICE does get run for cabin heat, and I usually run my car in Auto mode, which tends to use HEV mode on the freeway at higher speeds. I'd say I go through 3/4 of a tank of gas every 3 or 4 months.

Fuel stabilizer additives exist, and I think I have a small bottle of one that I've purchased, but I haven't tried it yet 😅

 

[20-yr Owner]

Fuel stagnation is possible, but the pressurized fuel tank helps to combat this. Also, the ICE does get run for cabin heat, and I usually run my car in Auto mode, which tends to use HEV mode on the freeway at higher speeds. I'd say I go through 3/4 of a tank of gas every 3 or 4 months.

Fuel stabilizer additives exist, and I think I have a small bottle of one that I've purchased, but I haven't tried it yet 😅

I learned the hard way to use additives in my boat.

 

[kempscamp1]

Yes, but................

Yes, I always plug in, and since most of my driving is around town it is mostly in EV mode.

But, I just got a Kill-A-Watt and, having just returned from a road trip with the battery down to HEV level I measured what it took to return to 100% charge. This would give me 30-33 miles of range.

In contrast to some earlier threads on this forum, I used the fully loaded cost of electricity net of taxes, surcharges, fees, etc. This was 13.9 cents per kilowatt hour (vs. the nominal rate of 11.8 cents per kilowatt hour).

It cost me $2.18 to "fill up" the battery for around as much range as a gallon of gas. Currently gas is around $3/gallon in North Carolina.

I never expected to recoup the additional cost of the PHEV. I plug in as a small effort of environmental stewardship and because I'm a geek that likes new toys.

[Edit: I use a modified extension cord to bring the EVSE to my car which is parked outside. The Kill-A-Watt showed a pretty substantial voltage drop. Other folks might use fewer kilowatt hours to "fill up" their PHEV battery.]

So by your post you are changing your PHEV with the 110v charger?
I did that a few times when new before I installed my level 2 charger. Eight hour to change from dead with the level 1 . 3 hours to charge with the level 2. Regular gas is just under $4.00 in the desert where I live.

 

[Captain Blight]

So by your post you are changing your PHEV with the 110v charger?
I did that a few times when new before I installed my level 2 charger. Eight hour to change from dead with the level 1 . 3 hours to charge with the level 2. Regular gas is just under $4.00 in the desert where I live.

Takes ~12 hours to charge overnight. I'm retired, so that works out fine.

 

[kempscamp1]

Takes ~12 hours to charge overnight. I'm retired, so that works out fine.

I'm retired too, 12 hours at 110v uses more kwh than 3 hours at 220v. I like to save $ to spend on other things.🤔

 

[Captain Blight]

I'm retired too, 12 hours at 110v uses more kwh than 3 hours at 220v. I like to save $ to spend on other things.🤔

Do you have any documentation or calculations on this? I figured the basic Volts * Amps = Watts formula would apply, with roughly the same number of kWh being consumed.

Installing a Level 2 charger at my house would be expensive, but maybe it could be justified.

Note - The maximum acceptance level of the Tucson PHEV is 7.2 kW.

 

[kempscamp1]

Do you have any documentation or calculations on this? I figured the basic Volts * Amps = Watts formula would apply, with roughly the same number of kWh being consumed.

Installing a Level 2 charger at my house would be expensive, but maybe it could be justified.

Note - The maximum acceptance level of the Tucson PHEV is 7.2 kW.

My son and I installed the level 2 charger in my garage. Received a rebate from my local power company and California for almost the inter cost.
I do know that the PHEV Tucson will change faster than my Santa Fe. From what I have read about an hour. Tucson on board charger will except more amps.
I'm basing my $ savings by the difference in my power bills between the use of the two chargers.
I know both our PHEV have the same battery size and electric range.

 

[ALHertzberg]

Just curious:
Read an article today that said many PHEV owners don't bother to plug in their cars. In fact, Toyota is concerned enough that they are releasing a game/app for their owners that supposedly encourages plugging in.
Is this really a thing? Seems like if you buy a PHEV and don't bother plugging it in, you just spent more money to buy a less-fuel-efficient HEV.
I suspect most Tucson PHEV owners who are interested enough to come on this forum are also interested enough to plug in, but what say you?

I have a 2024 PHEV Limited. I live just South of Sacramento, California. I plug in frequently. My car has 6900 miles on it (bought in February 2024) and I am getting 60 mpg overall. My electric company (SMUD) gives a electrical credit of about $1.50 per month for me plugging in. Since I plug in mostly at nights (over night), my cost is about $2.30 per month. I had a concern raised by Canadian drivers that folks who mostly used the electrical to power their car were in danger of having problems with their gas engine. I therefore try and use my gasoline engine at least two or three times a month. So far I have had NO issues with the car.

 

[Captain Blight]

My son and I installed the level 2 charger in my garage. Received a rebate from my local power company and California for almost the inter cost.
I do know that the PHEV Tucson will change faster than my Santa Fe. From what I have read about an hour. Tucson on board charger will except more amps.
I'm basing my $ savings by the difference in my power bills between the use of the two chargers.
I know both our PHEV have the same battery size and electric range.

I've been doing some Googling since your post. I found various threads with folks huffing and puffing about L1 vs L2, but this video - and the comments - are the first I've seen with hard, objective data.

 

[Tampa8]

I've been doing some Googling since your post. I found various threads with folks huffing and puffing about L1 vs L2, but this video - and the comments - are the first I've seen with hard, objective data.

Great find, clearly explained. I did know there must be more loss because you are charging longer, but never thought that much difference. Keep in mind that was an EV not a smaller PHEV battery losses should be less for the PHEV using L1.

As always there is no free lunch. There is a downside to always using L2. How much a downside can be just a little loss of range (Battery efficiency) to it being more noticeable if you keep the car longer.
I'm not suggesting to not use L2, if I had a PHEV I would have to judge my conditions, how much loss I am getting using L1 vs range lasting over more time using L1 and use L2 less.

Slow charging is better for the overall health of the battery. EV battery makers themselves say it is better to not use faster charging all the time, use them more as needed. If you are plugging in overnight that is the time for L1.
I picked just a couple of site links, there are many that talk about it. Remember when they talk about charge time they are talking about EV's on L1. It takes much less time at L1 to charge a PHEV.

Is Level 2 Charging Bad for Battery?

Like an average smartphone, electric vehicles (EVs) rely on lithium-ion batteries to operate. Li-ion batteries are known for their high power-to-weight ratio, high energy efficiency, good high-temperature performance, long life at high temperatures, and low self-discharge, making them the...

ev-lectron.com

Is Slow Charging Better for EV Battery?

In the case of electric vehicle batteries, slow charging is the better option. It keeps things cool, calm and collected, and reduces the long-term drain on your battery from heat and stress.

store.autelenergy.com

 

[20-yr Owner]

I have a 2024 PHEV Limited. I live just South of Sacramento, California. I plug in frequently. My car has 6900 miles on it (bought in February 2024) and I am getting 60 mpg overall. My electric company (SMUD) gives a electrical credit of about $1.50 per month for me plugging in. Since I plug in mostly at nights (over night), my cost is about $2.30 per month. I had a concern raised by Canadian drivers that folks who mostly used the electrical to power their car were in danger of having problems with their gas engine. I therefore try and use my gasoline engine at least two or three times a month. So far I have had NO issues with the car.

Seems a sensible approach.

 

[Captain Blight]

Great find, clearly explained. I did know there must be more loss because you are charging longer, but never thought that much difference. Keep in mind that was an EV not a smaller PHEV battery losses should be less for the PHEV using L1.

As always there is no free lunch. There is a downside to always using L2. How much a downside can be just a little loss of range (Battery efficiency) to it being more noticeable if you keep the car longer.
I'm not suggesting to not use L2, if I had a PHEV I would have to judge my conditions, how much loss I am getting using L1 vs range lasting over more time using L1 and use L2 less.

Slow charging is better for the overall health of the battery. EV battery makers themselves say it is better to not use faster charging all the time, use them more as needed. If you are plugging in overnight that is the time for L1.
I picked just a couple of site links, there are many that talk about it. Remember when they talk about charge time they are talking about EV's on L1. It takes much less time at L1 to charge a PHEV.

Is Level 2 Charging Bad for Battery?

Like an average smartphone, electric vehicles (EVs) rely on lithium-ion batteries to operate. Li-ion batteries are known for their high power-to-weight ratio, high energy efficiency, good high-temperature performance, long life at high temperatures, and low self-discharge, making them the...

ev-lectron.com

Is Slow Charging Better for EV Battery?

In the case of electric vehicle batteries, slow charging is the better option. It keeps things cool, calm and collected, and reduces the long-term drain on your battery from heat and stress.

store.autelenergy.com

I have several other considerations. Because my car is parked outside, I am using a heavy gauge extension cord to bring the EVSE out to the car. The Kill-A-Watt showed a significant voltage drop, to 109 volts. This further degrades efficiency. I have 200 amp service, with plenty of headroom for additional draws, but all the breaker slots in the panel are full. I would either have to add a subpanel or use a (hardwired, probably automatic) switch on the dryer circuit. Both of these options would be expensive. (My local utility is offering an $1100 rebate for the wiring, but not the EVSE.)

The EV-Lectron site says that Level 2 charging "may" damage the battery, and doesn't acknowledge that modern EV/PHEVs come with temperature management and limit charging to 80%, along with other BMU functionality to protect the battery.

The Autelenergy site considers both Level 1 and Level 2 as "slow charging." They only caution against DC fast charging.

The YouTube presenter's daily commute that uses around 8kWh is comparable to a PHEV. He was able to recharge overnight with L1.

 

[Tampa8]

I have several other considerations. Because my car is parked outside, I am using a heavy gauge extension cord to bring the EVSE out to the car. The Kill-A-Watt showed a significant voltage drop, to 109 volts. This further degrades efficiency. I have 200 amp service, with plenty of headroom for additional draws, but all the breaker slots in the panel are full. I would either have to add a subpanel or use a (hardwired, probably automatic) switch on the dryer circuit. Both of these options would be expensive. (My local utility is offering an $1100 rebate for the wiring, but not the EVSE.)

The EV-Lectron site says that Level 2 charging "may" damage the battery, and doesn't acknowledge that modern EV/PHEVs come with temperature management and limit charging to 80%, along with other BMU functionality to protect the battery.

The Autelenergy site considers both Level 1 and Level 2 as "slow charging." They only caution against DC fast charging.

The YouTube presenter's daily commute that uses around 8kWh is comparable to a PHEV. He was able to recharge overnight with L1.

Great points.