[BobP]

FYI, Red Line changed the formula of their Complete Fuel System Cleaner SI-1 in 2021. There's a thread about it here: Polyetheramine(PEA) replaced with Oxirane in Redline SI-1 It's SDS
I partially agree with chemman in that thread that it is an amino ether compound. Equivalent to PEA?? You should easily be able to retrieve more info on a chemical from its CAS number, but this one, Oxirane, 2-ethyl-, homopolymer, 2-aminoethylethyl tridecyl ether, branched, CAS number 959934-87-3, nope.

 

[BobP]

Both, actually. I used it a couple times quite a ways back, as in maybe 22-25 years ago. Never in the tank though, as there were/are ample established for in-tank use, with HEET being the biggee for getting suspected water out (a bunch bigger problem in the past). On the occasions using the carb kit and feeding it straight into a running engine did not provide me the gratification or any apparent improvements before the exercise. Quite impressive "engine sounds ready to blow up from a rod knock" long with an enjoyable giant mosquito fogger show coming out the tailpipe. After that, I ended up coming across a credible-sounding professional quality video of seeing it used when the internet was young plus an article that listed the purported ingredients. Between them it succeeded in putting me off that product since. I do believe I still have an unopened can from then, just sort of a keepsake.

Things change, specs change, and what I read may not have been a correct list of contents even then, or even totally objective reviews. So, I'm certainly not going to slight comments of reported satisfaction with it.

Many of you probably dislike Scotty Kilmer, yes he's obnoxious, but as a retired research chemist I have to agree with him. You can find his videos on Seafoam on Youtube. I'm not going to link them. Seafoam was formulated in the 1940s for 2 stroke marine engines that mixed oil with gas. I still do it with my 2 stroke Hitachi grass trimmer and Craftsman chain saw. They require a Seafoam type cleaner now and then. Today's engines though require a cleaner that also contains a detergent, Polyetheramine, PEA. Seafoam does not contain PEA. I got a chuckle from this answer from Sea Foam to the question Does Sea Foam contain PEA? The tech should be in politics. You got to admit though they do have a great PR department.
I expect blowback on this, and if Seafoam works for your specific engine problem then great.

 

[Tony W]

Good to know, thanks.

 

[BobP]

Shrinkflation? The latest SDS for Chevron Techron Concentrate Plus dated 8/16/2024 shows its component 01154100-5179P Trade secret is 10 - 20 % weight. I’m assuming that’s PEA.

NAPA’s 32 oz value size, I missed the $12.99 special, now $19.99, SDS dated 3/26/2015 shows its component 01154100-5179P Trade secret is 30 - 60 % wt/wt. Is this old stock or new stock and an old SDS that NAPA has not updated?

Techron High Mileage Fuel System Cleaner latest SDS dated 2/10/2023 shows its component 01154100-5179P Trade secret is 20 - 25 % weight.

Auto Zone is currently running a BOGO for $11.99/2-12 oz Complete and $12.99/2-12 oz High Mileage Techron.
Not as good as the NAPA deal was but checking Chevron's treat rate calculator on how much to add per gallon maybe buying the high mileage version would be the way to go. Rounding out my gas tank capacity from 14.3 to 14 gals, assuming because the High Mileage version has more PEA, you would need 6 oz less than the Complete per tank.

 

[Alex]

Shrinkflation? The latest SDS for Chevron Techron Concentrate Plus dated 8/16/2024 shows its component 01154100-5179P Trade secret is 10 - 20 % weight. I’m assuming that’s PEA.

NAPA’s 32 oz value size, I missed the $12.99 special, now $19.99, SDS dated 3/26/2015 shows its component 01154100-5179P Trade secret is 30 - 60 % wt/wt. Is this old stock or new stock and an old SDS that NAPA has not updated?

Techron High Mileage Fuel System Cleaner latest SDS dated 2/10/2023 shows its component 01154100-5179P Trade secret is 20 - 25 % weight.

Auto Zone is currently running a BOGO for $11.99/2-12 oz Complete and $12.99/2-12 oz High Mileage Techron.
Not as good as the NAPA deal was but checking Chevron's treat rate calculator on how much to add per gallon maybe buying the high mileage version would be the way to go. Rounding out my gas tank capacity from 14.3 to 14 gals, assuming because the High Mileage version has more PEA, you would need 6 oz less than the Complete per tank.

I saw the AZ BOGO deal and picked up 4 bottles. I wish I had seen this thread sooner as I would have gotten the high mileage version instead. Not a big deal, I use top tier gas 90% of the time, only once in my year old car, so it should be fine. I'll just add a bottle of Techron very few months to play it safe.

 

[Probity]

Shrinkflation? The latest SDS for Chevron Techron Concentrate Plus dated 8/16/2024 shows its component 01154100-5179P Trade secret is 10 - 20 % weight. I’m assuming that’s PEA.

NAPA’s 32 oz value size, I missed the $12.99 special, now $19.99, SDS dated 3/26/2015 shows its component 01154100-5179P Trade secret is 30 - 60 % wt/wt. Is this old stock or new stock and an old SDS that NAPA has not updated?

Techron High Mileage Fuel System Cleaner latest SDS dated 2/10/2023 shows its component 01154100-5179P Trade secret is 20 - 25 % weight.

Auto Zone is currently running a BOGO for $11.99/2-12 oz Complete and $12.99/2-12 oz High Mileage Techron.
Not as good as the NAPA deal was but checking Chevron's treat rate calculator on how much to add per gallon maybe buying the high mileage version would be the way to go. Rounding out my gas tank capacity from 14.3 to 14 gals, assuming because the High Mileage version has more PEA, you would need 6 oz less than the Complete per tank.


View attachment 5138

View attachment 5139

I think you're onto something, I'm just not sure what that is. The whole 'fuel system cleaner/how much PEA does it have' I find very confusing, Techron probably more than most as they make/market it in different parts of the world and its additives/product numbers are different. As you noted, there are different SDS (safety data sheets) for Chevron USA Techron Concentrate Plus with different dates/additive concentrations. When you go into the Chevron USA site and do a search for SDS using just the word Techron, you get 4 different SDS with different SDS numbers/product codes/dates/additive mixes:

The one I THINK we're using in the USA/Canada when we go to the auto parts store or buy online from Amazon is product code 266701 - the 10%-20% 01154100-5179P (trade secret) one. If you're in Singapore and buy Caltex Techron Concentrate Plus (product number 510722) you get this (which additive-wise looks identical to product code 266701 but is specifically called PEA (polyetheramine):

Not so coincidentally, the recommended mix for both the USA/S'pore Techron Concentrate Plus is 1 oz. per US gallon.

If you're in the UK and buy Texaco Techron Concentrate Plus, that's a different mix. That is product code 804366, and has ~45% 'Oxirane etc' (which is some sort of PEA). The recommended mix for this is just over 10 US oz. for 13.2-18.5 US gallons.

 

[BobP]

I think you're onto something, I'm just not sure what that is. The whole 'fuel system cleaner/how much PEA does it have' I find very confusing, Techron probably more than most as they make/market it in different parts of the world and its additives/product numbers are different. As you noted, there are different SDS (safety data sheets) for Chevron USA Techron Concentrate Plus with different dates/additive concentrations. When you go into the Chevron USA site and do a search for SDS using just the word Techron, you get 4 different SDS with different SDS numbers/product codes/dates/additive mixes:

View attachment 5144

The one I THINK we're using in the USA/Canada when we go to the auto parts store or buy online from Amazon is product code 266701 - the 10%-20% 01154100-5179P (trade secret) one. If you're in Singapore and buy Caltex Techron Concentrate Plus (product number 510722) you get this (which additive-wise looks identical to product code 266701 but is specifically called PEA (polyetheramine):

View attachment 5145

Not so coincidentally, the recommended mix for both the USA/S'pore Techron Concentrate Plus is 1 oz. per US gallon.

If you're in the UK and buy Texaco Techron Concentrate Plus, that's a different mix. That is product code 804366, and has ~45% 'Oxirane etc' (which is some sort of PEA). The recommended mix for this is just over 10 US oz. for 13.2-18.5 US gallons.

View attachment 5146

You've done your homework, and yes it is confusing because there are websites selling Techron, i.e., NAPA, that are using an older MSDS, dated 3/26/2015, which shows a 01154100-5179P Trade secret concentration of 30 - 60 %wt/wt. That's a big difference from 10 -20%wt. I have contacted NAPA about this. If you are in the US then the current Techron SDS you should be looking at are from Chevron's website product details. You also have the problem of what version of Techron are stores selling. Is it old or new stock? The current SDS for Techron Concentrate Plus has a revision date of August 16, 2024. When did Chevron change Techron's formula? I do not have a bottle of Techron on hand, is each bottle dated?

 

[Probity]

You've done your homework, and yes it is confusing because there are websites selling Techron, i.e., NAPA, that are using an older MSDS, dated 3/26/2015, which shows a 01154100-5179P Trade secret concentration of 30 - 60 %wt/wt. That's a big difference from 10 -20%wt. I have contacted NAPA about this. If you are in the US then the current Techron SDS you should be looking at are from Chevron's website. You also have the problem of what version of Techron are stores selling. Is it old or new stock? The current SDS for Techron Concentrate Plus has a revision date of August 16, 2024. When did Chevron change Techron's formula? I do not have a bottle of Techron on hand, is each bottle dated?

All good questions, I have no answers. I did buy Techron Concentrate Plus at Napa recently (3 days ago), a 12 oz and 32 oz (for treating 3 different vehicles), no dates on the bottles, no way to even find a product code. The 32 oz bar code notes 23968 37802, 12 oz. bar code notes 23968 67740. The 23968 means something but not sure what. For grins I'll maybe call the Chevron consumer number (1-800-526-3013) tomorrow and see if they have any answers.

 

[Tampa8]

I attribute the difference to these factors.

I know 100% from reading online trade sites gas additives have changed over the years with different, better formulations. (As synthetic oil has btw)
I find it very plausible the older formulation needed more % trade secret product and they were able to make it more potent over time needing less.

That also plays into different brands, one formulation may require more % secret product than another to achieve the same cleaning.

Then among different Countries. With the same advancements in gas sold in the U.S. and Canada more % of the secret product may not be needed for reasonable cleaning, but in some Countries it is needed - OR - some Countries get a different secret product not directly comparable. Possible due to that region's regulations or any variety of reasons.

 

[BobP]

I just got off the Autozone website. For Techron Fuel System Cleaner 12oz they have an old SDS listed for it, Revision Date: August 07, 2020, with the component 01154100-5179P Trade secret 25 - 35 %wt. From the pic of it on their website, 12 oz for 12 gals, it's the 01154100-5179P Trade secret 10 - 20%wt version.

They did get the Techron High Mileage Fuel System Cleaner 12oz SDS sort of correct. It's not current, Revision Date: November 12, 2020, but 20 - 25%wt. for the 01154100-5179P Trade secret component is the same as the newest SDS, Revision Date: February 10, 2023, but one of the other components is different, Alkyl dithiothiadiazole on the older SDS, and N,N'-di-sec-butyl-p-phenylenediamine on the newest, same %wt.
For a buck more the High Mileage version is the better buy, 12oz treats 21gals. I picked up 2-12oz bottles for $12.99.

While in Autozone I also noticed that they are selling Gumout Regane Complete Fuel System Cleaner 12oz for $7.49, 12oz treats 19gals. The SDS on Autozone is correct, and it actually lists the component Polyetheramine CAS # 220795-29-9 10 - 30%wt, not a Trade Secret.

 

[Probity]

Well I did call Chevron the other day, got transferred to Lubes, guy said he'd look into my questions then give a call-back. He did call me back today. He was able to answer one part of my questions, but as expected not all. According to him, for the USA the different product numbers/SDS sheets you'll find here SDS (chevron.com) for "Techron Complete Fuel System Cleaner" or "Techron Concentrate Plus Complete Fuel System Cleaner" may be obsolete ones/products no longer used for whatever reason/a designation for sale in a foreign country. If you buy "Techron Concentrate Plus Complete Fuel System Cleaner" at an auto parts store, there's a 99.9999% chance it's product number 266701 (the 10%-20% stuff, mix 1 US oz. per 1 US gal.). If you do find in the US a bottle of "Techron Complete Fuel System Cleaner" (no 'Concentrate Plus' on the label) it's a real unicorn, the >45% stuff. No USA product data sheet available for it.

And yes the "Techron High Mileage Fuel System Cleaner" is the 'beefier' stuff with more PEA-type secret sauce that because it's more concentrated, you need less of it (1 US oz. for each 1.75 US gal. of fuel).

One way to tell from looking at the label of what you bought is the UPC code numbers:

 

[Tampa8]

I have some relevant information regarding using fuel additives and what the dealer may be using.
This is from a mechanic at the largest (Most volume of vehicles sold) Hyundai dealer in the U.S. for 12 years.

It may explain the change in Techron strength?

There is a problem when using too much/too strong amounts of these fuel additives. Some more than others. That problem is in oil dilution.
Using too much fuel additive can thicken the oil when there is oil dilution and increase oil dilution. How much of an effect depends on how much dilution you have and how much more than recommended you are using.

He says Techron has it on their site under FAQ, and what he was told in training. Using a little more than recommended has zero effect as far any problems/oil thickening it would take alot more than recommended.

He also said if you are recommended to have a treatment from the Service Department, they may be using BG44. That has the ability to do harm if used incorrectly and the one used by dealers is meant only for professional use.

I did find it on the Techron site
"Please refer to the product label or the Techron® Product Comparison Chart for recommended treat rates. Slight overtreatment of Techron® will not cause harm to the engine, but adding too much may cause oil thickening and fuel dilution. It is important to know that Techron is not a fuel replacement and should never be used as such."

 

[BobP]

I have some relevant information regarding using fuel additives and what the dealer may be using.
This is from a mechanic at the largest (Most volume of vehicles sold) Hyundai dealer in the U.S. for 12 years.

It may explain the change in Techron strength?

There is a problem when using too much/too strong amounts of these fuel additives. Some more than others. That problem is in oil dilution.
Using too much fuel additive can thicken the oil when there is oil dilution and increase oil dilution. How much of an effect depends on how much dilution you have and how much more than recommended you are using.

He says Techron has it on their site under FAQ, and what he was told in training. Using a little more than recommended has zero effect as far any problems/oil thickening it would take alot more than recommended.

He also said if you are recommended to have a treatment from the Service Department, they may be using BK44. That has the ability to do harm if used incorrectly and the one used by dealers is meant only for professional use.

I did find it on the Techron site
"Please refer to the product label or the Techron® Product Comparison Chart for recommended treat rates. Slight overtreatment of Techron® will not cause harm to the engine, but adding too much may cause oil thickening and fuel dilution. It is important to know that Techron is not a fuel replacement and should never be used as such."

I would like to hear it directly from Chevron. I have contacted them several times asking why they reduced the amount of PEA in their Techron Complete Fuel System Cleaner. No answer after several weeks and I doubt if I get one. Calling them only connects you to a clueless CSR. Just follow their Treat Rate Calculator for the current product you are using and don't overdose.
I think you are referring to BG Platinum 44K Fuel System Cleaner not BK44. I personally would not let any Hyundai dealer put a fuel system cleaner or additive in my Tucson.

 

[Tampa8]

I would like to hear it directly from Chevron. I have contacted them several times asking why they reduced the amount of PEA in their Techron Complete Fuel System Cleaner. No answer after several weeks and I doubt if I get one. Calling them only connects you to a clueless CSR. Just follow their Treat Rate Calculator for the current product you are using and don't overdose.
I think you are referring to BG Platinum 44K Fuel System Cleaner not BK44. I personally would not let any Hyundai dealer put a fuel system cleaner or additive in my Tucson.

Fixed the typing error....

 

[Alex]

I have some relevant information regarding using fuel additives and what the dealer may be using.
This is from a mechanic at the largest (Most volume of vehicles sold) Hyundai dealer in the U.S. for 12 years.

It may explain the change in Techron strength?

There is a problem when using too much/too strong amounts of these fuel additives. Some more than others. That problem is in oil dilution.
Using too much fuel additive can thicken the oil when there is oil dilution and increase oil dilution. How much of an effect depends on how much dilution you have and how much more than recommended you are using.

He says Techron has it on their site under FAQ, and what he was told in training. Using a little more than recommended has zero effect as far any problems/oil thickening it would take alot more than recommended.

He also said if you are recommended to have a treatment from the Service Department, they may be using BG44. That has the ability to do harm if used incorrectly and the one used by dealers is meant only for professional use.

I did find it on the Techron site
"Please refer to the product label or the Techron® Product Comparison Chart for recommended treat rates. Slight overtreatment of Techron® will not cause harm to the engine, but adding too much may cause oil thickening and fuel dilution. It is important to know that Techron is not a fuel replacement and should never be used as such."

I think I am missing something. How can a fuel additive cause oil dilution and thicken the oil? Fuel and oil are not supposed to mix.

 

[Tampa8]

I think I am missing something. How can a fuel additive cause oil dilution and thicken the oil? Fuel and oil are not supposed to mix.

All cars have some amount of fuel dilution to the oil in the crankcase. How much and how often is the question. Hybrids are very susceptible to it, GDI engines more than traditional, in fact Hyundai addressed it with a software update to help limit it on the Hybrid. (Longer run time of the engine before going to full EV)
In new cars the cause is mostly from the engine not reaching full operating temperatures to burn off the fuel before it enters the piston walls, crankcase. Short trips, Hybrids, anything that lessens the engine temperatures. Older cars have other reasons it can happen.

Techron is NOT meant to be in oil, in fact I have posted many times these new cars should have no oil additives because of the close tolerances of the oil flow. Normal use of Techron should have no effect but overuse, too much at a time could as it gets into the oil.

What is Fuel Dilution (and Why is it Bad)? - AMSOIL Blog

Fuel dilution occurs when gas or diesel infiltrates the crankcase and contaminates the motor oil. Here's why it's bad and here's what you can do about it.

blog.amsoil.com

 

[TraePalmer]

Thank you for this: since mine does have the oil life monitoring system, it's good to know that I should start making an appointment once it hits 15 %, which mine is at right now 😅

 

[TraePalmer]

I am taking an educated guess. The oil life monitoring must be something that has to be on the car to be monitored.

When I asked the service manager, he said that it uses input from three hardware sensors, as well as overall time from the last oil change to determine remaining oil life. Even when I've had the car sitting for a couple of weeks while I was at home with Covid, the percentage decreased by a couple of points.

 

[Tampa8]

When I asked the service manager, he said that it uses input from three hardware sensors, as well as overall time from the last oil change to determine remaining oil life. Even when I've had the car sitting for a couple of weeks while I was at home with Covid, the percentage decreased by a couple of points.

Great explanation. I'd say that is a good guide.

 

[raleighmclemore]

Nice video explaining this stuff. Engineering Explained, while supported in this case by Mobil1 oil, has (in my opinion) always offered carefully explained positions. This new video might help show the difficulties that hybrid engines face:

As for Techron I think the important thing is to read ingredients carefully. The change in the amount of PEA additive has changed where I use the restroom as I now realize I made a simple mistake. My bad. PEA only has one "E".